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| Posted on Monday, February 24 @ 00:00:22 PST |
Coming off his win in the Nevada caucuses, Bernie Sanders talks about Michael Bloomberg, Donald Trump, democratic socialism, and what he would do if elected president.,url:https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-democratic-presidential-candidate-anderson-cooper-60-minutes-2020-02-23/,articleId:0e4e2fb9-64f0-46bf-89aa-0f4030349255}> Flipboard Bernie Sanders: The 60 Minutes Interview
Bernie Sanders had an impressive win last night in the Nevada caucuses . He also won in the New Hampshire primary and leads the Democratic field in national polls. Its a stunning turn of events for a man who calls himself a democratic socialist, and is the first to admit hes been preaching the same populist, progressive message for decades. As the mayor of Burlington, Vermont, then a U.S. congressman, now an independent senator who caucuses with the Democrats, Sanders has been arguing that the very rich should pay higher taxes so that everyone can have health care, education, and a decent paying job. Sanders is 78 years old, and is filling arenas with huge crowds of young, enthusiastic supporters. Hes used to being the underdog, but now, grudgingly, has to admit: in the Democratic race for president, hes the front-runner.
Bernie Sanders
Anderson Cooper: After your entire career, to now be the front-runner of the Democratic Party--
Bernie Sanders: Yes, that is a bit shocking. I will agree. I will agree with you there.
Anderson Cooper: The Democratic Party has moved to you, if anything?
Bernie Sanders: In many ways, they have. And-- and the ideas that seemed radical four years ago are now kind of mainstream.
Anderson Cooper: The ideas are still pretty radical. I mean youve been saying with pride that youre making a lot of people nervous. You said, Wall Streets getting nervous, the insurance industrys getting nervous, drug companies are getting nervous, and the Democratic establishment is getting nervous.
Bernie Sanders: Yep, thats what I said.
Bernie Sanders at a rally: You know what? They should be getting nervous!
Anderson Cooper: Youre also making, though, a lot of Democratic voters nervous.
Bernie Sanders: I dont think so. I-- look, you know, you have a lot of candidates out there. And each candidate has his or her supporters.
Anderson Cooper: But a lot of voters are voting for candidates who arent calling for Medicare for All, who arent calling for a revolution. Is everybody really wanting a revolution like that?
Bernie Sanders: Yeah, lets go easy on the word rev-- political revolution, you know? Were-- were trying to follow--
Anderson Cooper: Y-- youre the one whos using the word.
Bernie Sanders: Well, I mean, you know, but I dont want people, you know, to overstate that. But here is the point. Its not good enough to complain, Oh, I cannot afford my health care. I cant afford childcare. I cant afford to send my kid to college. Im paying half of my income in rent. You know? If youre not happy about that, you got to be involved in the political process. Only millions of people standing up for justice can bring about the kind of change that this country requires. And I believe that has got to happen. Sanders waves to supporters at a campaign rally on February 21, 2020, in Las Vegas, Nevada. Getty
Sanders says the change he envisions most closely resembles Scandanavian and European countries with democratic governments and comprehensive social programs. But thats certainly not how President Trump has characterized it.
And its not just President Trump. At the debate this past week in Las Vegas, this is how former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg responded to one of Sanders proposals to require greater employee ownership of large companies.
Michael Bloomberg: I cant think of a way that would make it easier for Donald Trump to get re-elected than listening to this conversation.
This is ridiculous. Were not going to throw out capitalism. We tried that. Other countries tried that. It was called communism. And it just didnt work.
Anderson Cooper: You said it was a cheap shot that he said that. Whats going to happen on the stage w-- with President Trump, hes going to be doing shots all the time on you, on this.
Bernie Sanders: And you know what? We will fight back. And this is what we will bring up. We will bring up is that the president of the United States is a pathological liar. And it is increasingly clear that many people just dont believe anything that he says. He is a fraud. I look forward to taking him on.
Anderson Cooper: What is democratic socialism?
Bernie Sanders: When Donald Trump was a private businessman in New York, he got $800 million in tax breaks and subsidies to build luxury housing. Thats called corporate socialism. What democratic socialism is about is saying, Lets use the federal government to protect the interests of working families.
Back in the 1980s, Sanders had some positive things to say about the former Soviet Union and the Sandinistas in Nicaragua.
Here he is explaining why the Cuban people didnt rise up and help the U.S. overthrow Cuban leader Fidel Castro: …he educated their kids, gave them health care, totally transformed the society, you know?
Bernie Sanders: Were very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba but you know, its unfair to simply say everything is bad.
You know? When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program. Is that a bad thing? Even though Fidel Castro did it?
Anderson Cooper: A lot of p-- dissidents imprisoned in-- in Cuba.
Bernie Sanders: Thats right. And we condemn that. Unlike Donald Trump, lets be clear, you want to-- I do not think that Kim Jong Un is a good friend. I dont trade love letters with a murdering dictator. Vladimir Putin, not a great friend of mine. Sanders arrives, flanked by his wife Jane OMeara Sanders, to speak at a Primary Night event at the SNHU Field House in Manchester, New Hampshire, on Tuesday, February 11, 2020. Getty
A month ago, Sanders was told by U.S. intelligence that Vladimir Putins government has been attempting to help his campaign. And last week, lawmakers were briefed that Moscow is also trying to help re-elect President Trump. On Friday, Sanders offered this message to Putin: As president of the United States, Mr. Putin, you will not interfere in our elections.
Anderson Cooper: You believe winning absolutely relies on a voter turnout that this countrys never seen before?
Bernie Sanders: Thats right. I-- I think-- look, anyone who tells you that Donald Trump is not gonna be a tough opponent is kidding themselves.
The way you beat Trump is bring nontraditional voters into the political process.
Anderson Cooper: Donald Trump got elected talking to white middle-class Americans, white working-class Americans, promising to-- to make America great again. Your stump speech, your critics say sounds like nothing works in America, hasnt for generations. Is America great?
Bernie Sanders: In many ways, we are. In some ways, very significant ways, were not. Were not great when half of our people today are living paycheck to paycheck. When 500,000 people tonight are going to be sleeping out on the streets, including 30,000 veterans. You know, my father came to this country at the age of 17 without a nickel in his pocket. Couldnt speak a word of English, had very limited education. We are a great nation, because people like my father would never have dreamed in a million years that their kids would become United States senators or be successful in many other ways. Sanders speaks at town hall at the National Motorcycle Museum on January 3, 2020, in Anamosa, Iowa. Getty
Anderson Cooper: How much of your political beliefs are based on your experiences growing up in Brooklyn-- with your family?
Bernie Sanders: A lot, Anderson, a lot.
I grew up-- and I dont want to hear-- anyone to think Im-- we were desperately poor. We were not. My father worked every day of his life. He worked very hard, just never made a whole lot of money. And, you know, as a kid, this stays with you your whole life. These are the things you dont forget. The incredible arguments between my mom and my dad-- over money-- you know? Why didnt we have enough money to do this? And should we buy this and do that? And why are you buying this clothing? And bah bah bah bah.
Anderson Cooper: Your mom got sick when you were a teenager.
Bernie Sanders: Mhmm.
Anderson Cooper: Does that inform your view on medical policy, on Medicare for All, and all of that?
Bernie Sanders: I dont like to, you know, talk about personal stuff that much. But it does.
Anderson Cooper: Its interesting you dont like to talk a lot about personal stuff. Most people running on a campaign, they want people to know that side of them. Why do you think thats not important?
Bernie Sanders: Im not saying thats not important. Im a kind of-- private person in a sense. And I-- and I-- you know, Im not particularly anxious to tell the world about everything personal in my life.
Anderson Cooper: One of the things obviously people do know about is you had a heart attack a few months ago.
If-- if youre elected, running for a second term, youd be 82 years old. Somebody running for a second term at 82, shouldnt that give voters pause?
Bernie Sanders: Well, I havent won the first term yet, so lets--well see what happens on the second term. Being old has an advantage in the sense that the issues that I fight for are not new to me.
Anderson Cooper: One of the criticisms of you in the Senate, Joe Biden has said that you never got anything done.
Bernie Sanders: Pssst
Anderson Cooper: Amy Klobuchar has been-- are you getting mad?
Bernie Sanders: Im not mad– just silently hissing, thats all. (LAUGH)
Anderson Cooper: Amy Klobuchar says to be a progressive, you need to make progress, implying you havent. A Georgetown University study that you had one of the worst records for bipartisan cooperation in the Senate.
Bernie Sanders: Oh boy, dead wrong, dead wrong, dead wrong. When I was in the House, year after year after year, I passed more bipartisan amendments than anybody else in the House.
Anderson Cooper: In terms of getting your bills through Congress, we found, I think, what, seven bills that you were the primary sponsor on that got enacted. Two of them were-- involved naming Post Office buildings.
Bernie Sanders: Yeah, but if you look at the Affordable Care Act, my name was not on that bill. But you speak to anybody in Congress, I led the effort to bring $11 billion more into community health centers and expand-- primary health care in this country. I mean, the-- as you well know, Anderson, Congress is a complicated place.
Theres profound skepticism in Congress about Sanders ability to get his agenda passed. Two-thirds of Democrats in the Senate have not signed on to Medicare for All, which would cost an estimated $30 trillion to $40 trillion over ten years. And thats just one of Bernie Sanders many proposals. Theres also free public college, cancellation of all student debt, a federal job guarantee, and a Green New Deal to rapidly reduce carbon emissions.
Anderson Cooper: How much will that cost?
Bernie Sanders: Obviously, those are expensive propositions, but we have done our best on issue after issue-- in paying for them.
Anderson Cooper: Do you know how all-- how much though? I mean, do you have a price tag for-- for all of this?
Bernie Sanders: We do. I mean, you know, and-- and-- the price tag is-- it will be substantially less than letting the current system go. I think its about $30 trillion.
Anderson Cooper: Thats just for Medicare for All, youre talking about?
Bernie Sanders: Thats just Medicare for All, yes.
Anderson Cooper: Do you have-- a price tag for all of these things?
Bernie Sanders: No, I dont. We try to-- no, you mentioned making public colleges and universities tuition free and cancelling all student debt, thats correct. Thats what I want to do. We pay for that through a modest tax on Wall Street speculation.
Anderson Cooper: But you say you dont know what the total price is, but you know how its gonna be paid for. How do you know its gonna be paid for if you dont know how much the price is?
Bernie Sanders: Well, I cant-- you know, I cant rattle off to you ever nickel and every dime. But we have accounted for-- you-- you talked about Medicare for All. We have options out there that will pay for it. Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders gestures during the sixth Democratic primary debate in Los Angeles on December 19, 2019. Getty
Taxes on corporations and billionaires are the primary options hes proposed. But to finance Medicare for All, middle-class families would also pay an additional 4% tax on their income over $29,000. Sanders says theyll end up saving money because they wont have to pay premiums, co-pays, or deductibles.
But under Medicare for All, nearly 160 million Americans will have to give up their private health insurance.
Anderson Cooper: Isnt that a dangerous message for Democrats to say, You know what? Were gonna take away your private insurance. Were-- were gonna give you something better--
Bernie Sanders: Lets talk about--
Anderson Cooper: --run by the government. A lot of people dont trust that.
Bernie Sanders: Its not run by the government. Medicare allows you to go to any doctor you want for better or worse, this is not socialized medicine. This is keeping the same system intact, but getting rid of the private insurance companies, giving people another card, which allows them complete freedom.
Though hes campaigning as an advocate for the poor, Bernie Sanders became a millionaire four years ago, thanks largely to royalties from his bestselling book, Our Revolution. His Democratic rivals have given him some grief about it during the debates.
Anderson Cooper: You know what theyre getting at. Theyre-- theyre suggesting the its hypocritical, its criticism--
Bernie Sanders: We pay our fair share of taxes.
He doesnt think billionaires like Michael Bloomberg are paying their fair share, nor does he think much of the job Bloomberg did as mayor.
Bernie Sanders: I think the more people understand Bloombergs record as mayor of New York, where he engaged in horrifically racist policies of stop and frisk, people in America dont want that.
Anderson Cooper: You have promised to support the Democratic nominee. Personally, though, the idea of you going out campaigning for Michael Bloomberg, a billionaire, how would that even work?
Bernie Sanders: I--
Anderson Cooper: I mean can you honestly tell your supporters to support--
Bernie Sanders: Well, I-- I think this is the problem of a Bloomberg candidacy. Its not just my supporters, he is not going to be a strong candidate. But, what I have said, and you quoted me correctly, is I said on day one I will support the Democratic nominee, no matter who that nominee may be.
At the end of our interview, Sanders surprised us by unveiling a new plan that would guarantee free, high-quality child care and pre-kindergarten to every kid in the country from infancy to age four.
Bernie Sanders: So what we are calling for is universal childcare.
Anderson Cooper: How are you going to pay for this?
Bernie Sanders: We have a tax on wealth to pay for that.
Anderson Cooper: For all the people who like the idea of it, there are going to be a lot of Democrats, again, who are saying, Well, wait a minute, yet again, this is another program that-- its not clear how its going to get paid for.
Bernie Sanders: Well, listen--
Anderson Cooper: --its just going to add to--
Bernie Sanders: It is clear how its going to be paid for. Look, Anderson--
Anderson Cooper: More taxes.
Bernie Sanders: Its taxes on billionaires. You know? You know, I get a little bit tired of hearing my opponents saying-- Gee, how you going to pay for a program that impacts and helps children or working-class families or middle-class families? How you going to pay for that? And yet, where are people saying, How are you going to pay for over $750 billion on military spending? How you going to pay for a trillion dollars in tax breaks to the 1% in large corporations which was what Trump did? When you help the billionaires and you help Wall Street, Hey! Of course we can pay for it. Thats what Americas supposed to be about. Well, I disagree.
Produced by Andy Court and Evie Salomon. Broadcast associate, Sheena Samu. Edited by Peter M. Berman and Michael Mongulla. Rights Reserved. Anderson Cooper Anderson Cooper, anchor of CNNs Anderson Cooper 360, has contributed to 60 Minutes since 2006. His exceptional reporting on big news events has earned Cooper a reputation as one of televisions pre-eminent newsmen. Recent Segments
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